"A lot is up to us"

Gladwell Otieno is the former head of Transparency International (TI) Kenya, an office she took when former public ethics PS John Githongo, left TI to join government. Ms Otieno is a founder member of the Africa Centre for Open Governance (AfriCOG), a new civil society initiative focusing on anti-corruption and good governance.

PN: Is the citizen’s ability to influence society limited to the elections every 5 years?

GO: Democracy can’t be reduced to a tick on a ballot. That’s one part, but democracy is a whole tissue of things. For example, I was talking to someone about how undemocratic the marketplace is in Kenya. It’s quite routine for a company to contravene the law without anybody calling them into account. If you don’t fight you don’t get what you paid for. In fact, the African consumer is extremely apathetic when it comes to defending their rights.

PN: So would you say Kenya is 60% democratic, 40% democratic or…? 

GO: I wouldn’t like to give a percentage but I would say there are huge gaps. For example, for newspapers to report as a matter of course that ‘police shot a thug dead’, shows that it’s not even in our consciousness. Police have no right just to shoot people. This is quite a rough society, you know. And I suppose many African countries are. For people to think that it’s OK to be routinely assaulting each other, rape being made jokes about. The right to bodily integrity and respect for dignity is not there.

PN: Which measures do you feel should be put in place to fill those “huge gaps”?

GO: We have passed laws, unluckily we haven’t enforced them. So we have to strengthen our legal framework. But that’s not sufficient. The important thing is a change in attitude. It’s people who are the final defense. If they simply accept extortion as customers or as citizens confronted with the forces of law, then that’s your fault. Apart from all legal, technical and institutional changes the major one is changing the attitude of the citizen.

"If people know that they can stop so-called ‘leaders’ stealing their money, that’s a very important aspect of democracy for me."

PN: What do you say of the “benevolent dictator” approach to development? 

GO: I think one of the dangers of (President) Kibaki and his lack of leadership is that people start longing for that. When you have a lot of debate and people are getting poorer, people start longing for clarity, direction. That’s the situation you had before you had fascist dictators rising. Leadership doesn’t mean you have to use force, you can use persuasion, articulate a vision for an entire country. Things were worse under (former President) Moi, and are only marginally better under Kibaki. But one of the dangers of this total dereliction of responsibility by Kibaki is people start longing for the Moi government –which is the worst possible result of 5 years of the NARC government.

PN: Last thoughts?

GO: I focus on the fight against corruption. If people know that they can stop so-called

‘leaders’ stealing their money, that’s a very important aspect of democracy for me. For people to completely reject the idea that anybody has a right to steal common wealth. 

PN: From your view of our democratic development, what has been the big lesson?

GO: There is a lot that is in our power, a lot that is up to us. History just doesn’t take its course. There are various turning points that are the result of human beings intervening.